Forum: >Most powerful empire of its time >does nothing Why are chinese like this? Thei…

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 08:55 [#4929] [report]
>>20845
The real China is nothing like the China they portray themselves as being, and never was.
There's a big difference between internal power structures and power that can projected, especially in a culturally fractured society that valued things like illusions of grandeur and perceived honor over real martial might or logistics.
Their greatest achievement was a colossal failure. There's your first clue.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 08:58 [#4930] [report]
>>20845
Just governing and administering the territory they had was a massive undertaking that they couldn't accomplish (see the An Lushan rebellion). Someone like Genghis Khan could sweep up entire continents in a couple of decades, but the resulting empire would necessarily break down into smaller, more manageable kingdoms.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:02 [#4931] [report]
>>20855
>>20856
>>20857
That explains why it would fail but not why they wouldn't try, history is full of conquerors biting off more than they can chew, even extremely smart and competent ones.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:05 [#4932] [report]
>>20858
>why they wouldn't try
Because they were interested in ruling China, not riding over more ungovernable and untaxable land.

>biting off more than they can chew
China was already more than the Chinese emperor and his civil service could chew.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:06 [#4933] [report]
>>20845
>>Most powerful empire of its time
u fookin wot m8?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:09 [#4934] [report]
>>20860
A large chinese bandit warband in 700BC could probably conquer britain of the same time lol, are you some kind of ESL?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:11 [#4935] [report]
>>20845
Pretty sure this is a /his/ topic but, I imagine the chinese political system had a natural cap on the size of their actual control. China had extremely powerful hereditary rulers who governed dominions within the country, who were ranked below the Emperor but could be difficult to control. It was not abnormal for provinces to war against each other while the emperor looked on, perhaps favoring one side, perhaps indifferent (this in particular varies between eras iirc). The disunity of China was exacerbated by the fact that the Chinese heartland is, geographically speaking, largely cut off from the southern and western portions of the country; you can only exert so much political pressure over territories separated from your heartland by mountain ranges and deserts, especially in those days. Rome, too, was limited geographically - there is a reason they struggled to hold any region too far from the Mediterranean. But geography is only part of the puzzle, as the Chinese heartland showed much of the same warring and disunity in many periods of Chinese history, even when the emperor was relatively strong. However the Romans had arguably a better grasp of logistics basically from the very beginning, and while both countries had meritocratic education systems in place, I'd argue that Rome was better academically too, since Chinese education often had an autistic focus on classical literature, with things like military strategy and engineering being considered inferior and less important subjects of education.

Basically, the Chinese system was significantly less stable than most people tend to realize, and they lacked an ability to project and maintain power and logistics on the scale of other great empires. They were content to sit back and collect tributebux from the nations around them that feared invasion, but realistically speaking, they had little to no capability to actually hold those areas long term and integrate them into the empire.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:12 [#4936] [report]
>>20858
When you spend your time and resources desperately trying to hold what you have then you don't have the ability to expand.
You seem to think that China was actually like the kung fu movies portrayal of that time period. It was nothing like that.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:16 [#4937] [report]
>>20862
There is also the Chinese cultural differences. The petty squabbling, the exaggeration of their wisdom and skill, the outright lies about their achievements and history.
We see this mindset even today with them.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:26 [#4938] [report]
>>20852
>bc"e"
prolly a retard

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:27 [#4939] [report]
>>20856
I don't know what you're actually referring to, but the historical estimates of aspects of Ancient China are very good because of their extensive bureaucracy. There are millions of pages of records from the Ming dynasty alone, covering everything from tax records to minutes of court meetings

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 09:34 [#4940] [report]
>>20862
Rome did not have a meritocratic education system, they had a tutelage system copied from Greece, which focused on music and philosophy. Only rich nobles would give an education to their kids.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 10:16 [#4942] [report]
>>20865
>prolly a retard
You're the retard, that's an edit.
Also, BCE is accepted usage in academia and any non-Christian country. Why the fuck would a Taoist meme use Christian terminology for their dates?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 10:16 [#4943] [report]
>>20867
>Rome did not have a meritocratic education system, they had a tutelage system copied from Greece, which focused on music and philosophy. Only rich nobles would give an education to their kids.
Where did the Roman army learn their engineering skills?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 10:30 [#4945] [report]
>>20845
Their strongest competitors were drunken local shitheels and they expanded until they found proper civilization to beat their ass.
It was pathetic.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 10:33 [#4946] [report]
>>20868
I think it was grafitti by some anti-authoritarian anime character. The only "Trash Man" I recall is in The Stand.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 11:04 [#4948] [report]
>>20867
It was meritocratic for the era, meaning that families could progressively improve standing across generations. You had emperors whose families were likely peasants centuries prior. Even if it took generations, this is a lot better than most of the world had it

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 11:56 [#4959] [report]
>>20856
What the fuck are you rambling about

>>20862
>The disunity of China was exacerbated by the fact that the Chinese heartland is, geographically speaking, largely cut off from the southern and western portions of the country; you can only exert so much political pressure over territories separated from your heartland by mountain ranges and deserts
This

Not to mention northern, central, eastern, southern and coastal China are like five different continents, culturally-speaking, because of the different biomes
Coastal people are born traders and merchants to this very day (Guangzhou is still the richest province in China), northerners are rough and ready steppe nomad types, central plainsmen are what Brits of an age would call simple yeomen stock, etc

It's like trying to lump millennia of Dalmatian, Carthaginian, Pictish and Helvetian culture all into one. Just not going to happen

>>20864
As opposed to the famed European unity?

>>20845
>does nothing
Fought each other, like Europeans did

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 13:15 [#4970] [report]
>>20868
>Why the fuck would a Taoist meme use Christian terminology for their dates?
because for 1.4 billion people, theyre insignificant compared to a single white westerner.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 13:34 [#4971] [report]
>>20868
>in academia and any non-Christian country
so exactly the "people" that shouldn't be heard or listened to ever

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:25 [#4985] [report]
>>20845
>does nothing
This meme needs to die.
That empire is massively over-extended. The only reason it's able to function is because most of the territory it owns is indefensible, but actually conquering China spreads any administration thin.
The owner of the country is rich beyond all belief and has everything needed to enjoy the peak of prosperity forever. There is no incentive for further expansion once you reach the bounds of China, not only because everything else is difficult to conquer, but also because those outlying regions are poor and possible to integrate with your bureaucracy without assuming direct control.
If you mean cultural or technological developments, China is responsible for some of the biggest ones around. The fact that their civics didn't directly influence Europe doesn't change that.
The only major concern is the Needham question, and that was answered ages ago: The aristocracy was too consistently powerful (largely due to the hegemonic nature of the Chinese state) for a middle class of merchants to emerge and threaten their social order.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:30 [#4989] [report]
>>20876
>Needham question, and that was answered ages ago: The aristocracy was too consistently powerful (largely due to the hegemonic nature of the Chinese state) for a middle class of merchants to emerge and threaten their social order
whoever answered that is a gweilo idiot
the answer is we got fucking Manchu'd and them the Manchus decided to USSR the country forever and suppress the merchant and intelligentsia classes to stop them from successfully rebelling and de-Manchu-ising the country, and we never recovered from that
Confucian China was mutted in the 13th century and never de-mutted

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:32 [#4991] [report]
>>20872
The education itself had nothing to do with that. Education didn't have any impact on what positions you could get, unlike in China's imperial examination system.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:35 [#4993] [report]
>>20862
>However the Romans had arguably a better grasp of logistics basically from the very beginning
No, they just had more favorable terrain. Chinese investments in infrastructure ran deeper and went higher. The Grand Canal is the best proof of this.
Over the same timeframe as Rome's existence, they created a maritime highway that actually ran through the country to better enable taxation and troop deployment.
>>20877
>the answer is we got fucking Manchu'd
Brother, you can't just blame Da Jurchenz for everything. Han rule was restored in the 14th century and you had all the technology required to industrialize. The fact that you didn't is an outworking of politics and economics, not some Manchurian conspiracy to keep the Han ignorant forever.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:40 [#4995] [report]
>>20878
>Education didn't have any impact on what positions you could get
it helped good hereditary rulers make the best out of their countries, especially in the 15th century. the meritocratic countries which prized education were the ones that led the way into the Renaissance
the ones that didn't were Darwin'd out by conquest and backstabbery
>unlike in China's imperial examination system
don't think that Imperial China's government was not free from the usual court politics and all that. famed for it, really. also, the ones with the most resources to study for the exams (or bribe the examiners) were the upper-class. this was a known trope; there are Prince-And-Pauper type tales about farmers's sons and aristocrats' sons swapping places for the exams and all the ensuing hijinks

>>20879
>Han rule was restored
"Han"-ness is a political meme created by Manchus to pretend "we are all European", the exact same thing being done now with you-know-whom
>you had all the technology required
but none of the political backing, which Michael Porter identifies as essential

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 14:56 [#4999] [report]
>>20880
>"Han"-ness is a political meme created by Manchus to pretend "we are all European", the exact same thing being done now with you-know-whom
Okay, then I guess the answer is just that Han have been the pet slave race of the Manchus since the Jin dynasty and always will be.
>but none of the political backing, which Michael Porter identifies as essential
This is exactly what I just said.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:01 [#5015] [report]
>>20881
>since the Jin dynasty
Yuan
>and always will be
as I told my friends recently, we based and trad Confucians have been fighting a war we've been losing since the 13th century and we are probably one of if not the last generation, I'm resigned to my kids growing up as ABC bananas

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:05 [#5016] [report]
>>20876
>The only major concern is the Needham question
the answer is the question is fallacious bullshit, exactly like everything else that came out of this quack's asshole
>for a middle class of merchants to emerge
chinks lacked precious metals to trade and develop meaningful trade networks beyond administrative lines which is why they were so so hungry for european silver once it started flowing

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:08 [#5018] [report]
>>20879
>Over the same timeframe as Rome's existence, they created a maritime highway that actually ran through the country to better enable taxation and troop deployment.
Romans had an actual maritime highway and it was called the Roman lake aka mediterranean sea which they managed to conquer because unlike chinks they could into naval technology and logistics.

entire Rome was fed on grain shipped by sea.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:17 [#5022] [report]
>>20883
>the answer is the question is fallacious bullshit, exactly like everything else that came out of this quack's asshole
It's not unreasonable to believe China should've been able to expand on its technological lead before Europe caught up.
>chinks lacked precious metals to trade and develop meaningful trade networks beyond administrative lines which is why they were so so hungry for european silver once it started flowing
Those Europeans only got that silver right when it started flowing into China. If you want to argue that Chinese can't into currency, you may want to look at the history of paper money.
>>20884
>Romans had an actual maritime highway and it was called the Roman lake aka mediterranean sea which they managed to conquer because unlike chinks they could into naval technology and logistics.
Obviously, you don't have to conquer and secure an inland route (unless you're facing the British), so your argument amounts to Romans being superior because they lived next to a natural body prior to becoming an empire.
>entire Rome was fed on grain shipped by sea.
Grain shipped from Egypt, whose outputs were only enabled by a geographical glitch in Central Africa and whose terrain made it utterly indefensible.
Neither of these depended on Roman ingenuity.
By contrast, expansion into and retention of control over the Chinese breadbaskets in the south and the isolated southwest required logistical infrastructure to be built as an extension of ever-changing natural features.
Chinese had to fight for control over these areas just so they could build up the tools they used to control them. Romans essentially got carried by geography until they sold out their country to foreigners.
I guess we could call that an anomaly, but something tells me it won't be the last time whites do that.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:19 [#5025] [report]
>>20845
Maybe not fighting pointless wars of aggression might have something to do with a prosperity of a nation?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:22 [#5027] [report]
>>20845
They spend much more time controlling their own population to do anything else. And also China naturally has pretty much everything with the exception of fuel. From the perspective of people ruling China, it is not worth the effort of possibly causing a massive rebellion

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:25 [#5030] [report]
>>20884
>Rome
Not a true blue water power
>mediterranean
You could navigate that with simple galleys and not give a toss for storms, it's a giant fucking lake

>>20883
>silver is the only metal you need
Bollocks

If Ming Dynasty China had conducted more trade with Europe they would have, like Sengoku Japan (which did), adopted matchlocks sooner and more broadly. Fact is that they didn't need commerce with Europe (they thought, wrongly), they had their hands full trying to subjugate and maintain an empire the size of the whole fucking European continent, and the endless wars and rebellions kept the nation from prospering and encouraged an isolationist policy that hindered technology from developing at European rates

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:28 [#5032] [report]
>>20860
Easily.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:31 [#5034] [report]
>>20885
Not just Egypt. Modern day Tunisia was a breadbasket too. Once the empire split, egypt fed the senior half and tunis fed the junior. When the vandals took it, that was more than anything else the end of the junior half.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:32 [#5035] [report]
>>20888
>Not a true blue water power
china isn't even a true brown water power by that metric
>You could navigate that with simple galleys and not give a toss for storms
they could ship 100 ton obelisks across it, galleys my ass
>silver is the only metal you need
silver is the most available precious metal useful for trade. it's no coincidence that chinks had dynastic shift-tier upheavals whenever the flow of European silver stopped.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:34 [#5036] [report]
>>20888
>If Ming Dynasty China had conducted more trade with Europe they would have, like Sengoku Japan (which did), adopted matchlocks sooner and more broadly.
Both conducted extensive trade with China, but since the Japanese had a silver surplus, much of that trade made them net importers. China was used as a deflationary trade partner. You got large quantities of whatever they had, gave them your silver, then resold them in Europe for a net profit.
Also, the Chinese government obviously wouldn't (unless incapable of preventing it) permit the free sale of weapons to its subjects. The Ming actually did adopt European and Turkish weaponry relatively quickly. They fell behind only during the Qing dynasty, when novel developments widened the gap between what was necessary and what commonplace to a hopeless degree.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:35 [#5037] [report]
>>20884
>Wisconsin doesn't know jack shit about agriculture and logistics because they never had to import food by sea
Idiot

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:40 [#5038] [report]
>>20885
>It's not unreasonable to believe China should've been able to expand on its technological lead
there was no such lead and china didn't expand even on the few technologies that did reach them because lol zero trade and no amount of dead papers made by some wanker in the capital that reached nowhere and were forgotten until some communist quack decided to dig them up and inflate them to no end don't change that.
>Those Europeans only got that silver right when it started flowing into China.
europe had 100 times the silver chinks had even before discovering the new world.
> If you want to argue that Chinese can't into currency, you may want to look at the history of paper money.
thanks for proving my point by bringing up utterly worthless fiat that only further dismembered the non existent chink trade.
>Grain shipped from Egypt, whose outputs were only enabled by a geographical glitch in Central Africa
entire asia feeding on rice is that "geographical glitc" along with breeding like maggots.
>Chinese had to fight for control over these areas just so they could build up the tools they used to control them. Romans essentially got carried by geography until they sold out their country to foreigners.
lol, what pathetic cope. somehow conquering and outcompeting all the neighboring countries that also got carried by geography is just a coincidence while chinkland jobbing to every single nomad that managed to reach their isolated shithole is the result of hard effort and igenuity.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:47 [#5041] [report]
>>20893
>wisconsin is actually an engineering hyperpower because they used a lake to move troops on the occasion
too angry to die, bugman?

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:53 [#5043] [report]
>>20891
>china isn't even a true brown water power by that metric
Historically it was very much brown water only for millennia, yes
>ship 100 ton obelisks across it
Piss easy when the fucking sea has virtually no tide and sea states rarely breach 3, idiot

>it's no coincidence that chinks had dynastic shift-tier upheavals whenever the flow of European silver stopped
Correlation isn't causation, and you are mistaking currency for wealth
If a nation's trade settlement in USD suddenly drops, is the base underlying reason due to a lack of USD money supply, or because they are experiencing an economic crisis and are therefore slashing imports and hence reducing settlements in USD?
inb4 Russia's trade settlements in USD fell by half, causing them to go to war against Ukraine
Which is the cart and which is the horse?

>>20892
>They fell behind only during the Qing dynasty, when novel developments widened the gap between what was necessary and what commonplace to a hopeless degree
This is a statement of events rather than an explanation of why it happened and what factors might've caused it
>the Japanese had a silver surplus, much of that trade made them net importers. China was used as a deflationary trade partner. You got large quantities of whatever they had, gave them your silver, then resold them in Europe for a net profit
Again, the underlying trade probably had a far greater impact than the medium used for it
The economy is always always ALWAYS built on products and services, the currency is a blind

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 16:57 [#5045] [report]
>>20896
>Piss easy when the fucking sea has virtually no tide
so easy that millenia passed without such feats
>Correlation isn't causation
lol
>and you are mistaking currency for wealth
you're mistaking wealth for developed trade, which cannot exist without a stable trade medium.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 17:12 [#5050] [report]
>>20897
>millenia passed without such feats
Compared to navigating the Atlantic, the Skeleton coast, the Cape of Good Hope and Cape Horn? Yes
Rome to Carthage is what 300 miles and Sicily to Carthage is 100 miles, even retards could make a quick run to Sicily and then hug the coast the rest of the way
>which cannot exist without a stable trade medium
he said, describing a trade relation that enriched its main factors due to massive arbitrage

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 18:05 [#5069] [report]
>>20896
>This is a statement of events rather than an explanation of why it happened and what factors might've caused it
If you mean the question of why China didn't end up like Meiji-era Japan, it's because the British weren't Whigs. Nationalist China technologically developed beyond Qing, but since we were talking about China's progress in relation to Japan's, there's not much to say. Its progress in the face of the West is different.
>Again, the underlying trade probably had a far greater impact than the medium used for it
You blind fuck. I just told you how the medium affected the trade. The roles of buyer and seller determine which goods go where and how that affects modernization, but since they both adopted the weaponry anyway, the narrative is moot.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 21:31 [#5141] [report]
>>20845
>North
Arctic

>West
Literal thousands of miles of steppe, desert and mountains between the center of power and whatever is on the other side; have fun holding it

>South
The trees are speaking Vietnamese

>East
Conventional armies don't do great in boats.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 22:21 [#5164] [report]
>>20866
>>20873
The Great Wall I'm guessing.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 22:22 [#5166] [report]
>>20861
A large chinese warband would just conquer itself retard.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 22:31 [#5168] [report]
>>20845
Who owned the part between North and South Korea

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 22:54 [#5177] [report]
>>20903
A Korean kingdom that went by the name Silla. Koreans had their own three-kingdom period that ended with Silla allying with Tang, those two conquering the two other major Korean kingdoms.

Anonymous · 2026-07-07 23:01 [#5182] [report]
>>20845
>>Most powerful empire of its time
>>does nothing
>Why are chinese like this?
The mongols could administrate a large area because they were nomads and had long distance couriers and could actually travel to the far reaches.

Most of China's empires were spending all of their effort to maintain the empire at its current size (and expand to the other chinese provinces they didn't control.)

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 01:03 [#5228] [report]
>>20896
The Ming chimped out over Japanese and Korean pirates, so they banned all trade whatsoever. Then they also closed domestic mining. Then the Ming dynasty didn't change it's tax policy from fees in silver as silver inflated in price leading exponential taxation DURRING A FUCKING FAMINE. This was 100% currency related.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 01:09 [#5230] [report]
>>20845
It's pretty easy to control the steppe, it's changed hands over history more times then OP's mum

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 01:58 [#5244] [report]
>>20906
>the economic crisis was caused by capital controls during a famine, not by the famine itself

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 02:09 [#5251] [report]
>>20908
I'm arguing that the damage would have been less severe if the Ming hadn't had a policy of expecting a third or more of a peasants' income durring a famine, yeah.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 02:32 [#5263] [report]
>>20909
and I'm arguing that bad monetary policy might make disasters worse, but pales in damage wrought to the disaster itself

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 02:51 [#5272] [report]
>>20858
>That explains why it would fail but not why they wouldn't try

Because they're China.

The Romans figured this out when they reached Scotland, difference was their economic system was largely built on:
>kill those guys
>take their shit

So course correcting when that's like a third of what you're good at, is hard. The Chinese though were at that stage pretty much since the Han when they went up north and found a huge expanse of grass filled horse fucking inbred yokels and 0 gold or silver except what they brought. And went down South and found a bunch of jungle humping savages that didn't have the decency to have big tits. And out west they found mountains and when those weren't there is was desert, and not enough gold and silver between either to fill a childs cart.

And that's really what it's about you know? Gold and silver. The few times the dirty savages around China, like the Zhenla, Gojoseon, or Wa managed to stop picking through their shit long enough to copy them they were just civilized enough to have the manners to send China gold and silver, as they should, because China is so great.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 03:58 [#5285] [report]
>>20911
>And went down South and found a bunch of jungle humping savages that didn't have the decency to have big tits
shows what you know
the Southern Province to this day is famed for having girls with big tits
and anywhere you see a Viet with pale(r) face and small(er) tits, you know it's because her great-great-nth-great-grandparents were chink rapebabies

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 04:47 [#5315] [report]
>>20857
The Mongol Empire's popular depiction is also very different than its reality. It wasn't barbarians on horseback, it had an established bureaucracy and administrative divisions, and largely left existing local governments in place that were able to function with a relatively great deal of autonomy under a tributary system.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 05:38 [#5333] [report]
>>20913
And a pretty decent logistics pipeline

Then again they stole most of the admin tech off us chinks, i am ethnically obligated to say

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 05:39 [#5334] [report]
>>20912
Vietnamese don't have big tits

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 06:46 [#5341] [report]
>>20882
>Ruled by outsiders
>"What up fellow Han, sure was great to be our own country greater than all the other cuck nations huh?"
Biggest lie in existence, let your ABCs avoid being giga-cucks who pretend that nearly the last millennia wasn't rule by foreign invaders who shit down the throats of their people and also stagnating the nation of progress that the Japanese were able to make.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 06:49 [#5342] [report]
>>20879
>Han
dude, l'mao zedong
Pan-Hanism isn't real. This is like saying
>Yeah so you were made into rapebabies by the Soviets who forced you into their faggy ass alliance but you're no longer a filthy tribal.
>#We are all ̶S̶o̶v̶i̶e̶t̶
>We are all European
>There are no Germans
>There are no Ukrainians
>There are no British
>There are no French
>We are part of the European Empire, ruled by the capital in Muscuvy

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 06:58 [#5343] [report]
>>20881
>slave race
You're describing near-modern Chinese history. Mongol -> Manchu rule was shit. Mongol rule is like phase 1 of being wifebeaten, Manchu rule was when the wifebeater gets old, senile and blows every fork in road decision.

Skip all the Chinese Legalist shit of shitting down the population's throat as a base, that's easy enough to look at how historical governance sucked like a lot of historical governments. Mongol and Manchu rule cemented the suck and retardation forever like Russian rule of lands. There is a distinct export of shitty policies and shitty culture forever.

The CCP is practically a continuation of shitass rule "but with socialist characteristics." A hybrid of dogshit shoved down the throats of a beaten, soul crushed populace.

Look at how Chinese diaspora look elsewhere once they slip the yoke of retarded rulers. Same story when you look at "Russians" who slip out of Russia (Sikorsky, Seversky, Kartveli for easy examples). China's "Father of Nukes and Rockets" only exists due to American education and the unfortunate aspect of being loyal to China as a nation (Imperial -> Republic -> People's Republic). Were he have not to gone back the Chinese rocket program would have taken decades longer.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 09:51 [#5354] [report]
>>20915
For chinks, they do
And they get bigger the less chink blood and more Austronesian blood they have

>>20916
I don't understand this post

>>20917
Precisely

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 11:07 [#5360] [report]
>>20919
Chinese ultranationalists like to eat oxcarts full of human shit destined for the ricefields in believing that rule under the Mongol and Manchu dynasties was anything but subjugation by foreigners. Teaching your lil ones that they have no obligation to have "pride" in being serfs is a good thing.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 11:08 [#5361] [report]
>>20845
Pic unrelated?

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 14:32 [#5396] [report]
>>20920
I hear otherwise from Han nationalists, they all curse the rule of the Mongol Yuan and Manchu Qing, bragging about how Mongols were subjected to massacres during the red turban rebellion and the Manchu being culturally genocided during the 1911 revolution. They end up praising the Tang Dynasty and the Ming Dynasty more than anything imo

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 14:51 [#5400] [report]
>>20922
Yeah duh
That's like Anglo-Saxons bitching about the fucking French ruining everything from William the Conker onwards, while simultaneously cheering Henry V (of Norman descent) for sticking it to the fucking French

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 19:45 [#5446] [report]
>>20849
China was never going to get past the Iranian Plateau, let alone reach the Fertile Crescent.

Anonymous · 2026-07-08 22:39 [#5476] [report]
>>20914
>+25 social credit score for saying someone else copied superior Chinese system
>-55 social credit score for using the word "most"
You will be arrested, beaten, and forced to publicly humiliate yourself for insulting Chinese sensibilities but you'll still be able to ride public transit. Just the shitty kinds though.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 01:04 [#5512] [report]
>>20925
fortunately great granddad left China so I can tell you gweilo all the shit the other chinks won't tell you
(unfortunately he was high as a kite most of his life, but that's another story)

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 11:36 [#5673] [report]
>>20868
Why the fuck would a taoist meme would use the birth of Christ as year 0?

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 13:16 [#5721] [report]
>>20927
NTA but the whole reason BC is fucking stupid is we don't know the exact year Jesus was born. It was somewhere between like 10bc and 4bc, so Jesus was born 10 years before christ, which is fucking dumb.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 13:39 [#5733] [report]
>>20871
Trashcan Man did literally nothing wrong, okay? Okay.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 13:56 [#5741] [report]
>>20928
Doesn't matter, we all know CEniggers are trying to deChristianise society, so fuck em regardless
If clock hands and foot measures were a Crucifixion reference I would bin every digital clock I have and ban the metric system

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 14:03 [#5746] [report]
>>20930
>Doesn't matter, we all know CEniggers are trying to deChristianise society, so fuck em regardless
It's not called dechristianising if it was never christian and in any case, theocracies are trash.
The more influence religion has, the worse society gets.
Your kind need education.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 15:40 [#5807] [report]
>>20931
White civilisation up to the turn of the millennium was built by Christians, and they infused the epistemology of every field they worked in with the tenets of Christianity, especially in the humanities such as law and sociology. If you disagree then you are probably heathen and brown.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 15:52 [#5814] [report]
>>20845
why not go south from kabul and conquer india? all that flat space just waiting

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 16:07 [#5821] [report]
>>20932
>White civilisation up to the turn of the millennium was built by Christians, and they infused the epistemology of every field they worked in with the tenets of Christianity, especially in the humanities such as law and sociology
Other way around, European humanism tamed Christianity from being a mystery cult into a tool.

Christian was as primitive as every other religion until we fucked with it and trimmed its rough corners off.
It was still pretty brutal even a century or two ago and still has a bunch of fucked up shit in it.
And the proof of this is that wherever it gets a little power, things turn to shit at a rapid pace.

You just can't build civilisation on religion, though you can civilise religions to a degree.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 19:21 [#5901] [report]
>>20934
>European humanism
What you know as "European humanism" is basically Christian, it's been in Europe for so long

>the proof of this is that wherever it gets a little power, things turn to shit at a rapid pace
you cannot use that as proof that the religion is flawed unless you can prove that those flaws are a permitted part of the religion
and if you were using the actions of the people as evidence fo that civilisation's principles and mores, it would be difficult to argue that European civilisations are much better, considering all the wars and so on over the centuries

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 20:03 [#5909] [report]
>>20935
>it's been in Europe for so long
No, it is explicitly not Christian, because otherwise we'd see these ideas in the middle ages and late rome.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 20:22 [#5916] [report]
>>20868
thats like calling jesus “greg” just because youre in a non christian country. Youre still refering to a christian concept youre just using some silly alternative name out of obstinance. You know where the word “kike” comes from? Jews using a circle instead of an “X” when filling out paperwork just to avoid drawing a cross. (Yiddish for circle is “kikel”.) You are engaging in literal kikery.

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 20:41 [#5919] [report]
>>20856
>ackshually hurr durr china bad durr
ok

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 20:43 [#5920] [report]
>>20902
you should start making sense if you want to sound smart

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 20:51 [#5922] [report]
>>20845
Wars not make one great

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 21:32 [#5927] [report]
>>20937
>thats like calling jesus “greg”
no it isn't
more like using imperial units instead of the metric system

Anonymous · 2026-07-09 21:40 [#5929] [report]
>>20937
>calling jesus “greg” just because youre in a non christian country
well, you'd call him Jeshua in that case, no?

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 00:01 [#5992] [report]
Is anybody here autistically interested in and knowledgeable about the Mongol empire?

I'm curious about their political structure and approach to expansionism, in terms of like how often they really erred on razing/sacking/massacring/enslaving military targets vs just conquering and subjugating them, and what degree the empire had actual administrative oversight and control over conquered cities or meddled in local social/cultural institutions, economic matters, or if they invested in infrastructure at all, etc

Please me as obsessively in depth with as many caveats as you are willing to type out. Even if you post 10+ posts in a row I'll read all of it.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:17 [#6164] [report]
>>20938
yes.jpg

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:19 [#6169] [report]
>>20934
>European humanism tamed Christianity from being a mystery cult into a tool.
actually it was Aristotelean logic that did it but nice try.

>You just can't build civilisation on religion, though you can civilise religions to a degree.
tips fedora

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:24 [#6175] [report]
>>20845
>Most powerful empire of its time
anon, I...

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:28 [#6178] [report]
Could they have done it?

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:46 [#6184] [report]
>>20845
>Why doesn't <powerful country> just use it to acquire even more power? Are they stupid?

The most celebrated men in Eastern cultures are more along the lines of:
>ruled boringly for 40 years
>period of peace and prosperity

Of course, to the American mind, which is inherently violent and only interested in raping and robbing, it's unfathomable that a country would just want to be left alone and focus on domestic tranquility.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 05:53 [#6186] [report]
>>20948
true that, Americans cannot comprehend how powerfrul this is

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 11:10 [#6277] [report]
>>20949
Americans cannot comprehend much tbqhwy

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 11:16 [#6278] [report]
>>20950
All information I found on that when I researched it like a year or two ago was from companies producing literacy modules.

>Chat GPT

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 11:39 [#6287] [report]
>>20951
Yeah probably because it wouldn't really be relevant coming from companies producing plumbing accessories or telemetry instruments I guess?

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 11:44 [#6288] [report]
>>20845
>That map

God I fucking hate what the CCP has done to tang dynasty historgraphy. Give it a couple months and they'll add Tibet to that inaccurate abomination

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:11 [#6296] [report]
>>20952
No, in the sense that when I looked it up that was the only place I could find as primary sources, everywhere else linked to it. And if you can't understand what the implication of this is there's no point in explaining it.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:26 [#6305] [report]
>>20954
Behold the power of Google:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:29 [#6306] [report]
>>20955
Actually, I believe this now, I forgot live somewhere that funds it's schools.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:33 [#6311] [report]
>>20956
it's even worst for numeracy btw

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:44 [#6322] [report]
>>20867
>Rome did not have a meritocratic education system,
Latin was an official Govt program. From Latin class I remember Roman generals saying "were're gonna need another 4,000 new words for all the stuff we found in Gaul".

Slaves could become lawyers, and they didn't know Latin when captured.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 12:53 [#6330] [report]
>>20958
EG

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 13:33 [#6360] [report]
>>20958
>Roman generals saying "were're gonna need another 4,000 new words for all the stuff we found in Gaul"
"Well, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't a no-holds-barred, adrenaline-fueled thrill ride. But, there is no way you can perpetrate that amount of carnage and mayhem and not incur a considerable amount of paperwork."

>Slaves could become lawyers, and they didn't know Latin when captured
but not all slaves, surely?
And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;
Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 13:40 [#6364] [report]
>>20960
>but not all slaves, surely?
Well no, if you're a young wench or comely lad then you're probably bound for a brothel to be a fuck toy for working class Roman men.
A tradesman gets sent to a factory or similar and farmhands are in permanent demand.

They're all probably going to be taught Latin though because otherwise it would be hard to command them.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 16:57 [#6483] [report]
>>20950
yeah, the incomprehensible wonders of gutter oil cuisine

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 16:58 [#6488] [report]
>>20960
>but not all slaves, surely?
yeah, lots of slaves got worked to death. roman slavery was different from semi-modern chattle slavery that comes to westerners minds but it was still slavery.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 17:02 [#6490] [report]
>>20861
Unlikely. The only reason the Romans managed it was by allying with various tribes there, working with them and then giving them them the land they took to rule in their name and it wasn't until later on that Prittania could merged into Rome proper. The Boudica raped the Romans until Watling Street when they decided to use retard ugg combat tactics instead of the shit that worked (throwing javs from chariots).

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 17:10 [#6497] [report]
>>20963
yeah, but we were discussing how widespread teaching slaves Latin was, dude
>worked to death
slavery in antiquity was a highly unpleasant lifetime of manual labour but they weren't actually worked to death in the same way the Nazis tried to do to the Poles and did do to the Jews, for example, because even if they treated slaves like pack animals, pack animals are still valuable
you wouldn't run your car down to the ground deliberately, would you?

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 17:18 [#6502] [report]
>>20965
also in ancient Greece and by extension in Rome slavery wasn't an end-of-life brand but something that could be overcome and it was honourable to do so. the phrygian cap is literally a symbol of a freed slave and it's one of the most prominent and popular distinct Greco-Roman symbols period. one of the founders of stoicism was famously a freed slave that rose to being a prominent and recognized philosopher.

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 17:27 [#6507] [report]
>>20962
I don't understand this bugman shit, isn't cooking oil pretty cheap?

Anonymous · 2026-07-10 17:56 [#6529] [report]
>>20967
1stly, it's not a common practice

2ndly, it's a cultural "I don't give a fuck for my customers" attitude; the concept that "if I treat my customers nicely they will come back for more" relies a lot on gratitude (on the part of customers) and on long-term thinking on the part of both customer and cook, what Geert Hofstede called "time orientation"; and Communists are neither grateful for fuck-all nor famed for long-term thinking

3rdly, China is massive, even if "only" the bottom poorest 20% of the population do this, that's still 300 million people with some truly heinous hygiene

4thly, China is not rich, the glittering lights of Shanghai and other Tier One cities are not representative of the rest. China's nominal GDP per capita is US$15,000, but the mean salary in Tier 1 cities is as high as US$20,000, so you can see there is a massive inequality. Chongqing, Chengdu, and Wuhan are the largest non-Tier-1 cities, and even there the median salary is only US$8,400 per annum.
And thanks to globalisation and cheap shipping, everyone competes for the same oil. Those people are competing for the same syobean and palm oil as Europeans and Americans earning 2x to 4x as much.

Consider your reaction if you were to pay double or even triple for your cooking oil, anon.
And dipping sauces.

Anonymous · 2026-07-11 15:08 [#7404] [report]
>>20928
Which still doesn't explain why a Taoist meme would use the birth of Christ as a reference point. You obviously have trouble understanding what a conversation is about.

Anonymous · 2026-07-11 17:31 [#7567] [report]
>>20846

Anonymous · 2026-07-11 17:38 [#7575] [report]
>>20846
>They fought and won a civil war
Technically, every country wins their civil war.

Anonymous · 2026-07-12 23:36 [#8729] [report]
>>20858
China could barely conquer China, and only if everything went completely perfectly.

Anonymous · 2026-07-12 23:44 [#8735] [report]
>>20845
Once you get to a certain size, the sheer distance of distant lands makes them not worth it to expand into.
Until ships started traversing the sea en mass at speed it just took too many resources and too many men lost to go further, and the desire to go further stops after you walk 2000km to what seems like endless expansion to you.

Anonymous · 2026-07-13 00:14 [#8751] [report]
>>20845
Cowardice by their leaders. That's all. There were several moments in Chinese history where great men could brought gloey to their country, but were stopped because the decadent cowards running the country were scared of losing their power over them. See what happened to the Treasure Fleet... what a shame.

Anonymous · 2026-07-13 00:18 [#8752] [report]
>>20873
>As opposed to the famed European unity
That disunity worked in Europe's favor, mostly, driving their self-development. China's flaws had no real benefit to the Chinese.

Anonymous · 2026-07-13 00:22 [#8753] [report]
>>20879
>had all the technology required to industrialize
No, they didn't. Even Euros only managed it because their universities accepted a rationalistic cause-and-effect worldview back in the 13th century and even then it took them centuries, and that was with groups like the Royal Society being made to speed up the whole process. If they hadn't had their worldview, they would've just been stuck in the medieval ages forever. It's not just a matter of political will.

>Most powerful empire of its time >does nothing Why are chinese like this? Thei…

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