>>20641
The threshold for an M4A1 barrel replacement is between 7,500 and 10,000 rounds, what about barrel life being reduced to 4,000 rounds for a super high pressure cartridge shot from a support weapon (i.e. mostly bursts) sounds so unreasonable?
in the age of body-armour 5.56 just doesn't cut it anymore
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Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 18:28:15
>>20659
>slightly shorter case
>slightly worse velocity
>slightly less recoil
The gap between .277 and 5.56 is far greater than .30-06 and .308
>slightly shorter case
>slightly worse velocity
>slightly less recoil
The gap between .277 and 5.56 is far greater than .30-06 and .308
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 18:28:45
>>20636
>Negated by proper design and materials
I'll remind you that civilian life hunters slow shooting similar calibers can expect them to last for 5000rds maximum, even with the best kinds of barrels you can get, which is something they stretch out over many years.
For a machinegun, you're easily going to run 100rds very quickly in one combat engagement, your job as a gunner is to lay down a LOT of suppressive fire. The bore erosion is gonna be magnitudes faster, even when you AREN'T doing full retard 85k PSI loads (I dread to imagine how short the barrel lifespan is on Sig's XM250).
I doubt you'd get much farther beyond 3000rds before the barrel gives out on any GPMG rebarreled for 6.8mm, and for what performance gains?
>>20654
Which is an actual legit argument, because you'd be spending a shitload of money on retooling ammunition production, for a cartridge which will be more expensive to use, and all modest improvements in performance.
There's nothing that a 6.8mm GPMG can do which the conventional 7.62mm GPMG doesn't already do at a much lower cost.
>Negated by proper design and materials
I'll remind you that civilian life hunters slow shooting similar calibers can expect them to last for 5000rds maximum, even with the best kinds of barrels you can get, which is something they stretch out over many years.
For a machinegun, you're easily going to run 100rds very quickly in one combat engagement, your job as a gunner is to lay down a LOT of suppressive fire. The bore erosion is gonna be magnitudes faster, even when you AREN'T doing full retard 85k PSI loads (I dread to imagine how short the barrel lifespan is on Sig's XM250).
I doubt you'd get much farther beyond 3000rds before the barrel gives out on any GPMG rebarreled for 6.8mm, and for what performance gains?
>>20654
Which is an actual legit argument, because you'd be spending a shitload of money on retooling ammunition production, for a cartridge which will be more expensive to use, and all modest improvements in performance.
There's nothing that a 6.8mm GPMG can do which the conventional 7.62mm GPMG doesn't already do at a much lower cost.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 18:37:49
>>20661
4000rds is a very generous estimate.
Again, modern commercial top of the line rifles in these kinds of calibers are still at a ceiling of 5000rds with very gentle use, while the XM5 has its bore raped by around 2000rds of the normal pressure training ammo, and that's not even a support weapon.
4000rds is a very generous estimate.
Again, modern commercial top of the line rifles in these kinds of calibers are still at a ceiling of 5000rds with very gentle use, while the XM5 has its bore raped by around 2000rds of the normal pressure training ammo, and that's not even a support weapon.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 18:41:42
>>20647
Total nonsense when people say things like this.
The government retains the power and authority to commandeer industry vital for defense. They'd throw retard amount of money at people.
You're only talking about something as simple as an ammunition cartridge too. Sig would have no trouble with changing their own production and licensing out.
Total nonsense when people say things like this.
The government retains the power and authority to commandeer industry vital for defense. They'd throw retard amount of money at people.
You're only talking about something as simple as an ammunition cartridge too. Sig would have no trouble with changing their own production and licensing out.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 18:49:08
>>20665
>The government retains the power and authority to commandeer industry vital for defense
Russia and Ukraine are in a state of actual major conflict and they're both buying plates from China. The average dude on Arfcom has better armor than anybody in Ukraine except the hardass SSO dudes.
When industry is destroyed you can't use it for the war effort.
>You're only talking about something as simple as an ammunition cartridge too.
And plates can be made in someone's garage. Strike face, backer, adhesive, wrap.
>The government retains the power and authority to commandeer industry vital for defense
Russia and Ukraine are in a state of actual major conflict and they're both buying plates from China. The average dude on Arfcom has better armor than anybody in Ukraine except the hardass SSO dudes.
When industry is destroyed you can't use it for the war effort.
>You're only talking about something as simple as an ammunition cartridge too.
And plates can be made in someone's garage. Strike face, backer, adhesive, wrap.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:00:47
>>20656
>Performance is not meaningfully better
Oh no it's retarded.
>>20657
>SIG SIG SIG SIG
6.8x51 is a creation of the Army, but thanks for letting us know your motivations are driving by irrational behavior.
>>20658
They actually did, it is one of the primary reasons the Army never adopted .276 Pedersen after WW1.
>Performance is not meaningfully better
Oh no it's retarded.
>>20657
>SIG SIG SIG SIG
6.8x51 is a creation of the Army, but thanks for letting us know your motivations are driving by irrational behavior.
>>20658
They actually did, it is one of the primary reasons the Army never adopted .276 Pedersen after WW1.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:02:23
>>20661
It's interesting how you keep insisting barrel life is 4000 rounds.
It's interesting how you keep insisting barrel life is 4000 rounds.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:02:28
>>20667
>are driving by irrational behavior.
saaaaaaaar
HICAR is also a military program. Actual argument please Mr. Cohen.
>are driving by irrational behavior.
saaaaaaaar
HICAR is also a military program. Actual argument please Mr. Cohen.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:04:29
.556 has never won a war and everytime it was against adversaries NOT wearing body armor. You can take this a couple ways.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:04:44
>>20668
It's the first time I've posted the figure, I just don't find it unreasonable and multiple people in the thread are explaining why.
It's the first time I've posted the figure, I just don't find it unreasonable and multiple people in the thread are explaining why.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:04:58
>>20659
>Which 7.62x51 actually provides meaningful improvement on, Mr. Cohen.
It had almost identical performance and would still be in use by the US military if not for it being adopted because it gave NATO countries a common cartridge.
>Which 7.62x51 actually provides meaningful improvement on, Mr. Cohen.
It had almost identical performance and would still be in use by the US military if not for it being adopted because it gave NATO countries a common cartridge.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:06:18
>>20667
>Oh no it's retarded
Less core mass than 7.62x51mm and same thing can be done with hybrid case 7.62x51mm.
>but that weighs more!!!!
by a hair and the 6.8 still weighs more than 5.56. A lot more.
You fuckers do realize 6.8 weight is so bad they're actually making the close combat force's plates weaker to compensate, right? LSAPIs are replacing ESAPIs and they're comparatively flimsy as shit. China's gonna pop that crap with basic DBP191
>Oh no it's retarded
Less core mass than 7.62x51mm and same thing can be done with hybrid case 7.62x51mm.
>but that weighs more!!!!
by a hair and the 6.8 still weighs more than 5.56. A lot more.
You fuckers do realize 6.8 weight is so bad they're actually making the close combat force's plates weaker to compensate, right? LSAPIs are replacing ESAPIs and they're comparatively flimsy as shit. China's gonna pop that crap with basic DBP191
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:07:21
>>20672
Almost identical AND it's shorter AND it weighs less.
Almost identical AND it's shorter AND it weighs less.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:07:55
>>20669
HICAR is a SOCOM project, and just like their other rifles it will only be used in small quantities. Not that you care as your comments are not driven by the needs of the US military.
HICAR is a SOCOM project, and just like their other rifles it will only be used in small quantities. Not that you care as your comments are not driven by the needs of the US military.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:09:02
>>20675
>Not that you care as your comments are not driven by the needs of the US military.
Neither are yours, we're on 4chan chief.
>Not that you care as your comments are not driven by the needs of the US military.
Neither are yours, we're on 4chan chief.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:09:03
Embrace the 9mm/6.8/338/50cal doctrine
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:09:12
>>20673
>discussion is replacing 7.62x51 with the new 6.8 round
>b-b-b-but both are heavier than 5.56!!!
You have no argument and are now grasping.
>discussion is replacing 7.62x51 with the new 6.8 round
>b-b-b-but both are heavier than 5.56!!!
You have no argument and are now grasping.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:14:33
>>20673
>less core mass
Oh no a 120grain projectile vs a 130grain projectile, those 10 grains totally make up for 7.62x51 being a ballistic potato.
>same thing can be done with hybrid case 7.62x51mm
Making 7.62x51 higher pressure does not fix its fundamental design shortcomings.
>ESAPI is being replaced with LSAPI because of 6.8x51 and not because ESAPI is heavy and bulky
Absolute cope.
>less core mass
Oh no a 120grain projectile vs a 130grain projectile, those 10 grains totally make up for 7.62x51 being a ballistic potato.
>same thing can be done with hybrid case 7.62x51mm
Making 7.62x51 higher pressure does not fix its fundamental design shortcomings.
>ESAPI is being replaced with LSAPI because of 6.8x51 and not because ESAPI is heavy and bulky
Absolute cope.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:15:09
>>20678
Mr. Cohen, this thread is about 5.56 in the age of body armor if you actually looked at the op and didn't get called in.
Mr. Cohen, this thread is about 5.56 in the age of body armor if you actually looked at the op and didn't get called in.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:16:24
>>20676
one anon is discussing military cartridges and the other is ranting about India and SIG, we are indeed on 4chan
one anon is discussing military cartridges and the other is ranting about India and SIG, we are indeed on 4chan
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:17:42
>>20679
>ESAPI is being replaced with LSAPI because of 6.8x51 and not because ESAPI is heavy and bulky
ESAPI GEN-IV is 5lb flat and now standalone. Its performance is superb and yet the CCF, the dudes simultaneously getting the M8, are getting LSAPIs at best rated for BZ API and not even their own M1186.
>Making 7.62x51 higher pressure does not fix its fundamental design shortcomings.
I like how you're dodging the stockpile issue. We can't manufacture shit anymore, I'm sorry. If we're in a total war then the ability to use ammo we've already got matters more than incremental improvements.
>ESAPI is being replaced with LSAPI because of 6.8x51 and not because ESAPI is heavy and bulky
ESAPI GEN-IV is 5lb flat and now standalone. Its performance is superb and yet the CCF, the dudes simultaneously getting the M8, are getting LSAPIs at best rated for BZ API and not even their own M1186.
>Making 7.62x51 higher pressure does not fix its fundamental design shortcomings.
I like how you're dodging the stockpile issue. We can't manufacture shit anymore, I'm sorry. If we're in a total war then the ability to use ammo we've already got matters more than incremental improvements.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:18:23
>>20680
>admitting you were not following the discussion
It started here btw >>20634
>admitting you were not following the discussion
It started here btw >>20634
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:19:24
>>20681
Somebody got caught with CP or something blew up in Russia. These NGSW arguments are like clockwork.
HICAR is the better program. If it succeeds then it could expand beyond SOCOM to big army once people realize the M8 is a jackass elephant.
Somebody got caught with CP or something blew up in Russia. These NGSW arguments are like clockwork.
HICAR is the better program. If it succeeds then it could expand beyond SOCOM to big army once people realize the M8 is a jackass elephant.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:20:35
>>20682
>I like how you're dodging the stockpile issue. We can't manufacture shit anymore
We manufacture millions of rounds of small arms ammunition every year.
>I like how you're dodging the stockpile issue. We can't manufacture shit anymore
We manufacture millions of rounds of small arms ammunition every year.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:20:36
>>20683
Mr. Cohen, look at the op.
>>20511
I know the thread got hijacked but you're dodging 6.8 vs 5.56 because you're arguing in bad faith, Mr. Cohen. Pretending it's ONLY 6.8 and 7.62 is ignoring half the discussion.
Mr. Cohen, look at the op.
>>20511
I know the thread got hijacked but you're dodging 6.8 vs 5.56 because you're arguing in bad faith, Mr. Cohen. Pretending it's ONLY 6.8 and 7.62 is ignoring half the discussion.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:21:50
>>20685
Yes, and that's all common commercial calibers and not 6.8. We can retool but that takes time.
Yes, and that's all common commercial calibers and not 6.8. We can retool but that takes time.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:23:42
>>20686
>"Fuck I'm losing the argument, better try to change the subject."
The funny part of your ranting about SIG is that you think it matters to them whether the Army buys 5.56 or 6.8x51 rifles.
>"Fuck I'm losing the argument, better try to change the subject."
The funny part of your ranting about SIG is that you think it matters to them whether the Army buys 5.56 or 6.8x51 rifles.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:24:43
>>20687
It's literally just Lake City alone (which is making 6.8x51 now) and not accounting for civilian manufacturers.
It's literally just Lake City alone (which is making 6.8x51 now) and not accounting for civilian manufacturers.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:25:27
>>20688
Mr Cohen we're on 4chan, I do not give two shits if you walk away or not with a slightly higher stock price.
You're ignoring 5.56 vs 6.8 however and that's demonstrating bad faith
Mr Cohen we're on 4chan, I do not give two shits if you walk away or not with a slightly higher stock price.
You're ignoring 5.56 vs 6.8 however and that's demonstrating bad faith
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:26:32
>>20689
Which China will bomb come wartime using domestic agents.
Which China will bomb come wartime using domestic agents.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:30:51
Mr Cohen fucked off?!?!?!? oh noesssz
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:33:47
>>20690
>>20692
I accept your concession.
>>20692
I accept your concession.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:35:46
>>20693
>Declares victory by paying me 300 billion izzat
I ACCEPT YOUR CONCESSION, CUH
Anyway let's get this back on track.
>>20511
As thoroughly discussed in the thread, 5.56 has plenty of room to grow using higher pressure business.
>Declares victory by paying me 300 billion izzat
I ACCEPT YOUR CONCESSION, CUH
Anyway let's get this back on track.
>>20511
As thoroughly discussed in the thread, 5.56 has plenty of room to grow using higher pressure business.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:37:14
>>20666
Whatever helps you sleep at night Ivan.
Whatever helps you sleep at night Ivan.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:38:52
>>20691
I like the notion that American ammunition factories will get bombed but warehouses of ammunition will not.
I like the notion that American ammunition factories will get bombed but warehouses of ammunition will not.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:39:36
>>20695
>insults Russian armor
>gets called Ivan
the fuck
>insults Russian armor
>gets called Ivan
the fuck
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:40:42
>>20696
What are they gonna do, bomb every unmarked warehouse in the country?
Hell of a lot easier to just hit the source, not the stream.
What are they gonna do, bomb every unmarked warehouse in the country?
Hell of a lot easier to just hit the source, not the stream.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:44:02
>>20697
You're just a mental retard arguing about nothing and bullshit in tour own head.
This started with the post that said
>total war with china? Wouodnt even be able to make 6.8!
Get real retard. Remove head from imagination land, get real.
You're just a mental retard arguing about nothing and bullshit in tour own head.
This started with the post that said
>total war with china? Wouodnt even be able to make 6.8!
Get real retard. Remove head from imagination land, get real.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 19:45:34
>>20699
>bullshit in tour own head.
saaaaaaar
>Wouodnt even be able to make 6.8!
SAAAAAAAAR.
You're hammerfisting typos because you're pissed off. Dude, go outside.
>bullshit in tour own head.
saaaaaaar
>Wouodnt even be able to make 6.8!
SAAAAAAAAR.
You're hammerfisting typos because you're pissed off. Dude, go outside.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:33:18
>>20662
7.62x51mm NATO provides closely comparable performance to M2 Ball but with a significantly shorter cartridge, which lets the casings, magazines, action, and receiver, all be a good bit shorter and lighter for the same ballistic handling and performance.
This is not what .277 Furry offers, it offers a sketchy sidegrade to the existing 7.62mm NATO cartridge with dubious benefits, serious drawbacks, and at a high cost of implementation.
7.62x51mm NATO provides closely comparable performance to M2 Ball but with a significantly shorter cartridge, which lets the casings, magazines, action, and receiver, all be a good bit shorter and lighter for the same ballistic handling and performance.
This is not what .277 Furry offers, it offers a sketchy sidegrade to the existing 7.62mm NATO cartridge with dubious benefits, serious drawbacks, and at a high cost of implementation.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:35:35
>>20612
I shot a deer there once, bad shot I know. I ran to it and slit it's throat and there was no blood already did. Some some research and it turns out that's a very deadly shot
I shot a deer there once, bad shot I know. I ran to it and slit it's throat and there was no blood already did. Some some research and it turns out that's a very deadly shot
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:39:52
>>20701
This.
This.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:41:57
>>20668
Yes, because it's actually going to be less than half that with even normal pressure ammo
Yes, because it's actually going to be less than half that with even normal pressure ammo
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:42:43
>>20638
>it's called modern materials and rifling designs
"If I pretend that a solution exists, maybe the problem won't be a problem."
>it's called modern materials and rifling designs
"If I pretend that a solution exists, maybe the problem won't be a problem."
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:42:46
>>20667
It really isn't any better practically, it still needs tungsten core to reliably penetrate plates, it still has high recoil, it still is heavy, it still can only reasonably loaded up to 20 rounds per mag, it's still asking a lot for the average infantryman to use it beyond 300m. It's basically a sidegrade, except with the added caveat of retardhigh pressures and a wonky manufacturing process.
It really isn't any better practically, it still needs tungsten core to reliably penetrate plates, it still has high recoil, it still is heavy, it still can only reasonably loaded up to 20 rounds per mag, it's still asking a lot for the average infantryman to use it beyond 300m. It's basically a sidegrade, except with the added caveat of retardhigh pressures and a wonky manufacturing process.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:46:19
>>20706
>imnb4 the LPVO with a auto-BDC is made out to be some revolutionary gadget that will magically make Joe Groundpounder into a sniper
>imnb4 the LPVO with a auto-BDC is made out to be some revolutionary gadget that will magically make Joe Groundpounder into a sniper
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:49:45
>>20707
Even if that were the case, you could just...use the optic with 7.62 NATO and get the same result.
Even if that were the case, you could just...use the optic with 7.62 NATO and get the same result.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:51:38
>>20700
You argue like and are as full of shit as a woman.
Entirely unrespectable.
You argue like and are as full of shit as a woman.
Entirely unrespectable.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 20:53:22
>>20709
Mr. Cohen converted to islam!?
Mr. Cohen converted to islam!?
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