in the age of body-armour
5.56 just doesn't cut it anymore
in the age of body-armour 5.56 just doesn't cut it anymore
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Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 00:50:31
yes it does
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 00:50:38
do we need to switch back to 7,62?
this would also simplify logistics - allowing riflemen to interchange their ammo with the Machine Gunner
this would also simplify logistics - allowing riflemen to interchange their ammo with the Machine Gunner
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 00:51:39
>>20512
HGK 36 can barely penetrate mudwall at 300 yards
how do you expect it to pierce kevlar?
HGK 36 can barely penetrate mudwall at 300 yards
how do you expect it to pierce kevlar?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 00:58:53
>>20511
>the age of body-armour
May we see it?
>the age of body-armour
May we see it?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:00:53
.300 SwissAP exisits nd you are all deadmen walking.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:01:46
>>20515
sure
here you go
sure
here you go
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:07:29
What the fuck kinda temu /bag/ thread is this.
1. M855 will go through most all-HDPE plates like a hot knife through butter.
2. M193 goes through most steel plates damn well if going 3,250ft/s.
3. M855A1 will go through both of those.
4. M995 will get you through most plates below Level IV.
5. SIG's 97gr high pressure Hydracore AP will bust Level IV and ESAPI reliably.
5.56 with the correct loads and proper velocity will pierce any plate up to but still below an XSAPI. Nobody but the US actually has a stock of tungsten AP rated plates that won't be exhausted in five minutes.
1. M855 will go through most all-HDPE plates like a hot knife through butter.
2. M193 goes through most steel plates damn well if going 3,250ft/s.
3. M855A1 will go through both of those.
4. M995 will get you through most plates below Level IV.
5. SIG's 97gr high pressure Hydracore AP will bust Level IV and ESAPI reliably.
5.56 with the correct loads and proper velocity will pierce any plate up to but still below an XSAPI. Nobody but the US actually has a stock of tungsten AP rated plates that won't be exhausted in five minutes.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:08:27
>>20517
That carrier looks a bit low.
That carrier looks a bit low.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:09:12
>>20514
you're retarded. kevlar isn't the problem and a mudwall (of indeterminate thickness) at range isn't remotely close to armor.
you're retarded. kevlar isn't the problem and a mudwall (of indeterminate thickness) at range isn't remotely close to armor.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:10:37
>>20514
>Kevlar
Are you retarded? Kevlar isn't stopping anything but slow 9mm.
>Kevlar
Are you retarded? Kevlar isn't stopping anything but slow 9mm.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:17:51
>>20511
Sure it does. Setting aside that 5.56 remains one of the best penetrating rounds that doesn't have massive retarded downsides and also plates dont cover shit but the heart and lungs and only from the direct front and back, you arent shooting people once (youre shooting them till they go down, either by beating the plate apart or by getting around it), youre not shooting people alone (you have 3-12 other guys also shooting at the target and his friends), and you're not shooting people at long range (that's for MGs, vehicles and artillery). Within that context, 5.56 remains best in class.
Sure it does. Setting aside that 5.56 remains one of the best penetrating rounds that doesn't have massive retarded downsides and also plates dont cover shit but the heart and lungs and only from the direct front and back, you arent shooting people once (youre shooting them till they go down, either by beating the plate apart or by getting around it), youre not shooting people alone (you have 3-12 other guys also shooting at the target and his friends), and you're not shooting people at long range (that's for MGs, vehicles and artillery). Within that context, 5.56 remains best in class.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:20:55
>>20511
Exactly.
>Turns neck and dick into ground hamburger in your way
Exactly.
>Turns neck and dick into ground hamburger in your way
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:23:14
>>20520
>>20521
my mistake
thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
but I always thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
kinda demoralizing ngl. even ww2 helmets could stop pistol calibers (at the right angle) so what's the point?
>>20521
my mistake
thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
but I always thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
kinda demoralizing ngl. even ww2 helmets could stop pistol calibers (at the right angle) so what's the point?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:23:26
>>20519
complaining about PC height is like complaining about trigger discipline. shut the fuck up.
complaining about PC height is like complaining about trigger discipline. shut the fuck up.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:23:36
>>20511
Is there really any body armor that will consistently stop a 5,56 but not a 7,62?
Is there really any body armor that will consistently stop a 5,56 but not a 7,62?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:25:45
>>20522
> and you're not shooting people at long range
i saw a youtube video where some guy was shooting a Level IV Plate at a range of 30 meters and it failed to penetrate
> and you're not shooting people at long range
i saw a youtube video where some guy was shooting a Level IV Plate at a range of 30 meters and it failed to penetrate
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:26:45
>>20526
Like all SRTs bro
Like all SRTs bro
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:28:44
>>20527
You're gonna need very special 5.56 to bust a IV reliably. They're rated for .30-06 M2AP at 2,910ft/s. Much larger, much more energetic penetrator.
You're gonna need very special 5.56 to bust a IV reliably. They're rated for .30-06 M2AP at 2,910ft/s. Much larger, much more energetic penetrator.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:29:40
>>20524
>thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
nope. the rifle rated armor is ceramic or UHMWPE.
>but I always thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
kevlar can do that at long range but it's inconsistent and even non armor-piercing steel core rounds will still go through. and the more modern helmets that can stop it are made out of UHMWPE too.
>thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
nope. the rifle rated armor is ceramic or UHMWPE.
>but I always thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
kevlar can do that at long range but it's inconsistent and even non armor-piercing steel core rounds will still go through. and the more modern helmets that can stop it are made out of UHMWPE too.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:30:16
>>20529
>>20518
you seem to know a lot on this topic
where can I read more on this?
>>20518
you seem to know a lot on this topic
where can I read more on this?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:31:24
>>20530
>ceramic
yea right
as if a fucking vase was going to stop a bullet
>ceramic
yea right
as if a fucking vase was going to stop a bullet
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:33:09
>>20531
I'm one of several armor autists over in /gq/, we have infographics. Many infographics on this topic. See the links in the second post.
>>65298849
I'm one of several armor autists over in /gq/, we have infographics. Many infographics on this topic. See the links in the second post.
>>65298849
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:34:52
>>20533
'emmy
thx
'emmy
thx
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:38:16
>>20534
No problem. If you have any armor questions in general the people in /gq/ will be happy to deal. It's the last place on the open internet without shills on the topic.
No problem. If you have any armor questions in general the people in /gq/ will be happy to deal. It's the last place on the open internet without shills on the topic.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:38:16
>>20524
>thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
Have you never fucking heard of rifle plates? What are you even doing here?
>thought carrier plates were using kevlar as well
Have you never fucking heard of rifle plates? What are you even doing here?
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:41:55
>>20512
>yes it does
Yeah, it really does. OP is a fucking retard.
>yes it does
Yeah, it really does. OP is a fucking retard.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:42:13
>>20536
Chill on him brah, he's clearly a newb. Ceramic plates sometimes use kevlar or other aramid family fibers in the backer. My Protech 2230s for example.
Plates are one of three flavors.
1. steel or titanium
2. Ceramic
3. HDPE
Ceramics are at minimum two parts. A ceramic strike face and then a polyethylene, aramid, or fiberglass backer. PE is best generally but aramid can be very stout. Fiberglass sucks and is 60s tech.
Chill on him brah, he's clearly a newb. Ceramic plates sometimes use kevlar or other aramid family fibers in the backer. My Protech 2230s for example.
Plates are one of three flavors.
1. steel or titanium
2. Ceramic
3. HDPE
Ceramics are at minimum two parts. A ceramic strike face and then a polyethylene, aramid, or fiberglass backer. PE is best generally but aramid can be very stout. Fiberglass sucks and is 60s tech.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:42:28
>>20536
>Have you never fucking heard of rifle plates
no I am ESL
I read that there are plates that use kevlar - which might be wrong
and assumed that all plate carriers use kevlar
which i now know is wrong
>Have you never fucking heard of rifle plates
no I am ESL
I read that there are plates that use kevlar - which might be wrong
and assumed that all plate carriers use kevlar
which i now know is wrong
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc · reply · 2026-07-11 01:43:28
>>20511
>>20513
A perfectly adequate NATO cartridge for GPMGs, 'battle rifles' and long range marksmanship has existed for 130+ years and i will fight and die on this hill: 6mm Lee Navy.
>>20513
A perfectly adequate NATO cartridge for GPMGs, 'battle rifles' and long range marksmanship has existed for 130+ years and i will fight and die on this hill: 6mm Lee Navy.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:45:20
>>20539
Those are those OLD 1990s pressed aramid plates. They work and can be bought cheap but lose to real easy shit like mild steel core 7.62x39, among the easiest of rifle threats.
These are no longer made for good reason. I have two and man they look roached, but the shit works.
Those are those OLD 1990s pressed aramid plates. They work and can be bought cheap but lose to real easy shit like mild steel core 7.62x39, among the easiest of rifle threats.
These are no longer made for good reason. I have two and man they look roached, but the shit works.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:49:52
>>20539
There is Kevlar in some rifle plates, but it is not what's stopping the projectile in a plate rated for rifle threats. It does other stuff like keeps the plate together when it's shot multiple times, make the plate more drop safe and impact resistant, or preventing back face deformation. Generally, when people say Kevlar, they are referring to soft armor, which is only rated for certain pistol calibers. A rifle caliber like 5.56 will fly right through it. Rifle plates use other materials, primarily ceramic or polyethylene, and certain 5.56 loads can even defeat a lot of them, depending on the plate, bullet and distance.
There is Kevlar in some rifle plates, but it is not what's stopping the projectile in a plate rated for rifle threats. It does other stuff like keeps the plate together when it's shot multiple times, make the plate more drop safe and impact resistant, or preventing back face deformation. Generally, when people say Kevlar, they are referring to soft armor, which is only rated for certain pistol calibers. A rifle caliber like 5.56 will fly right through it. Rifle plates use other materials, primarily ceramic or polyethylene, and certain 5.56 loads can even defeat a lot of them, depending on the plate, bullet and distance.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 01:57:52
>>20542
The kevlar catches fragments after they penetrate the ceramic strike face. For many but not all "ICW" non-standalone plates, the plates are thinned out enough the fragments will actually penetrate the plates to be caught by your soft armor.
The kevlar catches fragments after they penetrate the ceramic strike face. For many but not all "ICW" non-standalone plates, the plates are thinned out enough the fragments will actually penetrate the plates to be caught by your soft armor.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 02:04:27
>>20543
>Kevlar stops 556 as long as you put a ceramic plate in front of it
Stop being pedantic.
>Kevlar stops 556 as long as you put a ceramic plate in front of it
Stop being pedantic.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 02:08:05
>>20544
Well if you forget the soft armor the round will still penetrate, hence why people really don't like ICW plates anymore.
Even the latest GEN-IV ESAPI and GEN-I LSAPI are fully standalone.
Well if you forget the soft armor the round will still penetrate, hence why people really don't like ICW plates anymore.
Even the latest GEN-IV ESAPI and GEN-I LSAPI are fully standalone.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 02:17:45
>>20545
>the armor specifically designed to be thin and light and work with soft armor wouldn't work without the soft armor
No shit, they're literally designed to work in a iiia vest. You're being incredibly autistic.
>the armor specifically designed to be thin and light and work with soft armor wouldn't work without the soft armor
No shit, they're literally designed to work in a iiia vest. You're being incredibly autistic.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:11:28
>>20524
>thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
No, they never have been. They're meant for shrapnel. UHMWPE helmets stopping the occasional 7.62 at 600 meters like a shitty level 3 plate is a fortuitous bonus not a design spec.
Armor pen in general is a neat autistic rabbithole, but completely meaningless for military professionals. At long range everyone is behind cover and hits are statistically random all over your body. At point blank, plates can save you from the first shot from a lower-skill opponent being lazy if you were too slow to hit first, but professionals are shooting for the face from the start, and everyone will be spamming shots over your whole body nonstop until one or the other side dies.
>thought modern helmets were designed to withstand rifle rounds on longer distances as well
No, they never have been. They're meant for shrapnel. UHMWPE helmets stopping the occasional 7.62 at 600 meters like a shitty level 3 plate is a fortuitous bonus not a design spec.
Armor pen in general is a neat autistic rabbithole, but completely meaningless for military professionals. At long range everyone is behind cover and hits are statistically random all over your body. At point blank, plates can save you from the first shot from a lower-skill opponent being lazy if you were too slow to hit first, but professionals are shooting for the face from the start, and everyone will be spamming shots over your whole body nonstop until one or the other side dies.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:15:29
>>20547
this anon gets it
this anon gets it
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:16:11
>>20546
>How ICW works is turbo autistic
armor 102
>How ICW works is turbo autistic
armor 102
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:16:20
>>20512
Ron Cohen btfo
>>20514
Mudwall is packed and hardened mud, as the name suggests (it's like shooting adobe, stucco, bricks almost). The kind of thick mudwalls you might see in Afghanistan would legit be hard to defeat with 7.62mm and even .50BMG at times, shit is just dense and hard, it's like shooting into the ground but if it was hardened.
Meanwhile, 5.56mm will annihilate basically any kevlar (soft armor) you could imagine.
Ron Cohen btfo
>>20514
Mudwall is packed and hardened mud, as the name suggests (it's like shooting adobe, stucco, bricks almost). The kind of thick mudwalls you might see in Afghanistan would legit be hard to defeat with 7.62mm and even .50BMG at times, shit is just dense and hard, it's like shooting into the ground but if it was hardened.
Meanwhile, 5.56mm will annihilate basically any kevlar (soft armor) you could imagine.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:17:04
>>20518
if thats true why did the army decide to create an entirely new weapon platform and cartridge? not being a smartass just genuinely curious
if thats true why did the army decide to create an entirely new weapon platform and cartridge? not being a smartass just genuinely curious
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc · reply · 2026-07-11 03:18:11
>>20542
>>20543
You should listen to this guy.
>>20543
You should listen to this guy.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:21:16
>>20514
IFV autocannons struggle to pen Afghan mudwall. It's thick reinforced dirt haha, guns don't stand a chance.
IFV autocannons struggle to pen Afghan mudwall. It's thick reinforced dirt haha, guns don't stand a chance.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:23:22
>>20551
Because 6.8 will do the same as I just said but at much greater distances and against newer, higher grades of body armor.
Head on Youtube and watch Buffman RANGE shoot a Militech RF2 Alumina and it stop twenty hits of M855A1. Can it stop 6.8 XM1186? Hell no chief.
The benefit of 6.8 is that it compares to 7.62x51mm penetration, a class beyond 5.56, with less weight and out of shorter barrels. I don't think it's a sound investment and more can be done with less - higher pressure 5.56 like HICAR.
>>20552
The kevlar is what actually stops the bullet with an ICW plate. The plate just breaks it up and weakens it so the kevlar can do so.
A IIIA panel is 30-35 layers of Aramid. M193 by itself can pierce over 150.
Because 6.8 will do the same as I just said but at much greater distances and against newer, higher grades of body armor.
Head on Youtube and watch Buffman RANGE shoot a Militech RF2 Alumina and it stop twenty hits of M855A1. Can it stop 6.8 XM1186? Hell no chief.
The benefit of 6.8 is that it compares to 7.62x51mm penetration, a class beyond 5.56, with less weight and out of shorter barrels. I don't think it's a sound investment and more can be done with less - higher pressure 5.56 like HICAR.
>>20552
The kevlar is what actually stops the bullet with an ICW plate. The plate just breaks it up and weakens it so the kevlar can do so.
A IIIA panel is 30-35 layers of Aramid. M193 by itself can pierce over 150.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:26:52
>>20551
Serious answer: the boomer gravelbelly meme of big calibers doing slow aimed shots at long range against completely exposed targets. It was a massive cultural movement in the mid last century, spawned by the Boer War era meta of smokeless powder but no high explosives, and legitimized by an American meme about le Kentucky militia rifleman. WW2 and Korea changed the game, Stoner kicked that meme in the balls with the M16, and the millennials put in in the grave with GWOT, but it snuck through the bureucratic loopholes at the last minute through a series of coincidences.
Penning armor wasn't a real legitimate reason. It was the excuse after long range for afghanistan expired, which was the excuse after stoppan' power during Iraq was busted, and all of these reasons were just rationalizations for le big boolet with big recoil aimed at long range against stationary targets with no cover. Google General Mattis' squad lethality initiative. That was what the ICSR boomers latched onto to give their meme a second life.
Serious answer: the boomer gravelbelly meme of big calibers doing slow aimed shots at long range against completely exposed targets. It was a massive cultural movement in the mid last century, spawned by the Boer War era meta of smokeless powder but no high explosives, and legitimized by an American meme about le Kentucky militia rifleman. WW2 and Korea changed the game, Stoner kicked that meme in the balls with the M16, and the millennials put in in the grave with GWOT, but it snuck through the bureucratic loopholes at the last minute through a series of coincidences.
Penning armor wasn't a real legitimate reason. It was the excuse after long range for afghanistan expired, which was the excuse after stoppan' power during Iraq was busted, and all of these reasons were just rationalizations for le big boolet with big recoil aimed at long range against stationary targets with no cover. Google General Mattis' squad lethality initiative. That was what the ICSR boomers latched onto to give their meme a second life.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:30:43
>>20555
>this is not a serious answer, he's fukkin' around, and is immediately disproved by the existence of 6.8 XM1184 tungsten AP.
>this is not a serious answer, he's fukkin' around, and is immediately disproved by the existence of 6.8 XM1184 tungsten AP.
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:34:47
>>20511
you use that SCHV ..22-250 .222 rem high accuracy Shooting club pedigree and shoot everyone in the neck, head, femoral artery and pelvis
you use that SCHV ..22-250 .222 rem high accuracy Shooting club pedigree and shoot everyone in the neck, head, femoral artery and pelvis
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:37:32
>>20518
>3,250ft
>everyones using faggot ass 11 inch barrels or 14.5s
youd need those snake oil 80/100k PSI alloy case loads to get 20/24inch barrel 220 swift performance that youre talking about from a regular M4
>3,250ft
>everyones using faggot ass 11 inch barrels or 14.5s
youd need those snake oil 80/100k PSI alloy case loads to get 20/24inch barrel 220 swift performance that youre talking about from a regular M4
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:38:40
>>20558
just use a 20 dude
just use a 20 dude
Anonymous · reply · 2026-07-11 03:42:51
>>20559
well yes
but every special forces and infantry guy wants or insists on having the smallest barrel possible so they can stick a can on it
on regular 5.56
instead of just getting a decent flash hider and being able to have an AR thats under 8 lbs since its not piston
well yes
but every special forces and infantry guy wants or insists on having the smallest barrel possible so they can stick a can on it
on regular 5.56
instead of just getting a decent flash hider and being able to have an AR thats under 8 lbs since its not piston
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